(01-18-2016, 10:30 PM)Jamieson Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2016, 10:14 PM)gothenaki Wrote: [ -> ]Hey - Boxrec use a very technical system to award points and avoid subjective bias.
But I'm sure you know better Jamieson.
(I'm really not trying to start an ESB-style online fight here. I agree JP needs to prove himself. Please don't abuse me)
Hey man no beef here bro I'm just backing up my statement, there's no abuse, just debate.
As for Boxrec sorry but I'm in disagreement again with you here again. Their records are great but their system is sh-t. You know they have Canelo as P4P #1 right? I don't care for P4P lists but #1? Come on.
Eastside is full of trolls, I like to debate and am happy to back up my statements. Don't take it personally. Everyone has an opinion. We aren't always going to agree on everything. That would be pretty boring right?
Absolutely. I was having a bit of a laugh.
I enjoy robust opinions
I just hope Aprils opponent, and I hope a convincing win, will ensure we all have a collective "damn, that was impressive" moment.
(01-16-2016, 03:09 PM)craigyid14 Wrote: [ -> ]I reckon if Parker was English he would have had it much tougher, here his opponents have been hand picked, yes some good heavies with good credentials but each opponent has been weighed up by his management and promotional team. Not sure what kind of backing he would have got in the UK, especially having not even medalled at the Commonwealth games.
I have posted previously a comparison chart on many top heavys inc Joshua & Parker ... why do you think Joseph would have had it a lot tougher when Joshua hasn't ?
(01-18-2016, 05:00 PM)Jamieson Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2016, 04:21 PM)shamrock Wrote: [ -> ]Exciting times. JP needs fight David Haye now for credibility, JP said himself he is ready for Wilder Fury and Klit. I see the focus in British circles is on Haye Vs Joshua. Joshua says he is not yet ready for the bigtime, that is Wilder, Fury or Klit., I expect he's taking sound advice or has a wise head on young shoulders.
Nice one Sham. I'm thinking Haye has bigger fish to fry than Parker.
Parker thinks he's ready for the top 3? Confidence is great but has his opposition really helped develop him?
His team has done well to maneuver him safely to where he's at but I think he should sit back a bit and wait for things to clear up a bit (Fury/ Wlad II, Wilder/ Povetkin, Chagaev/ Brown/ Oquendo if he still has a contracted shot) while getting experience against some actual gatekeeper types like Arreola, Kassi, Thompson or challenge himself against the likes of Mansour or Cunningham.
A loss could set him back but not learning and developing against better competition could see him in the same light as Wilder and Martin are seen: Vulnerable.
Areola has been offered good money multiple times - as has Cunningham. Thompson or Mansour as his first southpaw - not a chance .. Kassi i like but want him to notch a win up first. Haye is a dangerous opponent make no mistakes about it .. lets see how things unfold .. I think Joshua fights Chisora next then Haye as they are both local blockbusters. Chisora has been ordered to fight Helenius but i cant see this fight happening - Chisora is promoted by Sauerlands who Helenius has been at war with and the very reason he has been innactive to as long as he has. He holds the IBF International title and I think he will head in that direction (why wouldnt you) ..
(01-18-2016, 06:38 PM)shamrock Wrote: [ -> ]To be honest Goth I didnt see the Martin fight so I cant venture an opinion. A strong nz boxing identity suggested to me just a few days ago he considered Jo as vunerable to being upset badly when he actually does stepup as his record is propped with mismatches and public deceiving agendas. It was also stated as coming from Klits coach that Izu was the superior fighter in the Duco stable and produced better tactical sparring than Jo did.
With me its hearsay, I cant actually say except we will find out perhaps later in the year.
Sham ... I have posted a chart here with 5 or 6 legends of the division inc Ali & Tyson and their first 17 fights and Parkers is on par and in some cases better than all of these guys .. so i guess what whoever this strong NZ boxing identity is - he is insinuating that Ali Tyson and others who have gone onto become legends of the division all had records at the same time against mismatches with public deceiving agenda's? I am not Joes trainer but I am close with the K2 & KMG camp / group and what was said regarding izu producing better tactical sparring than Joe is the first I've heard of it and it certainly wasnt the feedback given to me .. Both Martin & Glazkov looked terrible for as long as it lasted.
(01-18-2016, 06:18 PM)Jamieson Wrote: [ -> ]Sure a lot of these guys turned down offers from team Parker to travel to NZ, but many are fighting on free to air TV in their own countries and making similar money without having to travel. Also each team has their own strategies and may have already mapped out a plan.
Did Parker's team negotiate or offer to travel to an opponents backyard? Doubt it. Duco is a small fish and doesn't want to give up any control just yet.
Parker turned down a spot on the Canelo/ Cotto card, so should we jump to the conclusion that he is worried about traveling? That would be silly.
Two sides to every story.
Martin and Parker are in the same boat. Both inexperienced with a lack of quality opposition. I could see either guy winning. I'd favour Parker but I haven't seen either guy in with anyone credible yet so who knows?
Is Cunningham still with Haymon? He might get to Martin first...
Jamieson .. That is ludicrous that we would identify opponents then travel to their backyard? Show me where any of the big names in the division have done that. With the level of corruption and biased judges - why on earth in your right mind would you consider doing that? Joe has just turned 24 and has racked up 17 fights .. Why should Duco give up any of their control ? They have invested plenty and positioned him perfectly to date. Some get on the 'but who has he fought bandwagon' and I once again refer to the comparison chart I have done. Why is it people want him thrown under a bus (taking unnecessary risks) .. he is being brought along to the satisfaction on his team and is gaining notoriety around the world with his name being bantered with Joshua's as being the best prospects in the division.
Arreola may have been offered good money several times but it would have only been appealing to him after the 2nd Stiverne fight. Most fighters take a confidence builder after getting knocked out so I can understand Arreola taking the Harper fight over a Parker clash. His next 2 fights have been on Showtime and NBC. Surely he would be making similar money and getting good exposure without having to travel.
Same thing with Cunningham. A Parker fight would have only been interesting after the Fury KO. Again he took a re-builder against Quezada and that was still on NBC. His 4 fights after that were all on NBC, HBO or Spike. Again similar money, good exposure without traveling.
Did team Parker consider traveling to the US to make those fights? I doubt it for the very same reasons Arreola and Cunningham turned down the offers. He can make good money without having to travel.
Yeah Thompson and Mansour would be risks but both are in their 40s and Parker is supposedly a top ten guy according to some alphabet trash. There used to be a time when fighters would challenge themselves. There's no chance because you don't won't to burst your money maker bubble just yet. Take a page out of Inoue or Betebiev's book.
Kassi arguably won his last two fights and is more credible than anyone on Parker's record. Botha had lost 4 in a row coming in...
(01-19-2016, 02:49 AM)Stu Duncan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2016, 06:18 PM)Jamieson Wrote: [ -> ]Sure a lot of these guys turned down offers from team Parker to travel to NZ, but many are fighting on free to air TV in their own countries and making similar money without having to travel. Also each team has their own strategies and may have already mapped out a plan.
Did Parker's team negotiate or offer to travel to an opponents backyard? Doubt it. Duco is a small fish and doesn't want to give up any control just yet.
Parker turned down a spot on the Canelo/ Cotto card, so should we jump to the conclusion that he is worried about traveling? That would be silly.
Two sides to every story.
Martin and Parker are in the same boat. Both inexperienced with a lack of quality opposition. I could see either guy winning. I'd favour Parker but I haven't seen either guy in with anyone credible yet so who knows?
Is Cunningham still with Haymon? He might get to Martin first...
Jamieson .. That is ludicrous that we would identify opponents then travel to their backyard? Show me where any of the big names in the division have done that. With the level of corruption and biased judges - why on earth in your right mind would you consider doing that? Joe has just turned 24 and has racked up 17 fights .. Why should Duco give up any of their control ? They have invested plenty and positioned him perfectly to date. Some get on the 'but who has he fought bandwagon' and I once again refer to the comparison chart I have done. Why is it people want him thrown under a bus (taking unnecessary risks) .. he is being brought along to the satisfaction on his team and is gaining notoriety around the world with his name being bantered with Joshua's as being the best prospects in the division.
Are you saying Parker is a big name in the division? I'm just pointing out the very same facts that these fighters are probably thinking to yourselves. Your the one stating that all these fighters have turned down offers. No one wants Parker thrown under the bus, we want him developed properly. Using the 'unnecessary risks" line you sound like Angel Garcia talking about Porter and Thurman fighter when they could be fighting a Salka type. I understand it's a business but it's also a big part of whats wrong with the game these days.
No one is arguing that Parker is one of the best prospects in the division but there are a handful or more prospects with similar records and until we see them facing some real adversity in the ring we don't really know how good they are.
(01-19-2016, 03:24 AM)Jamieson Wrote: [ -> ]Arreola may have been offered good money several times but it would have only been appealing to him after the 2nd Stiverne fight. Most fighters take a confidence builder after getting knocked out so I can understand Arreola taking the Harper fight over a Parker clash. His next 2 fights have been on Showtime and NBC. Surely he would be making similar money and getting good exposure without having to travel.
Same thing with Cunningham. A Parker fight would have only been interesting after the Fury KO. Again he took a re-builder against Quezada and that was still on NBC. His 4 fights after that were all on NBC, HBO or Spike. Again similar money, good exposure without traveling.
Did team Parker consider traveling to the US to make those fights? I doubt it for the very same reasons Arreola and Cunningham turned down the offers. He can make good money without having to travel.
Yeah Thompson and Mansour would be risks but both are in their 40s and Parker is supposedly a top ten guy according to some alphabet trash. There used to be a time when fighters would challenge themselves. There's no chance because you don't won't to burst your money maker bubble just yet. Take a page out of Inoue or Betebiev's book.
Kassi arguably won his last two fights and is more credible than anyone on Parker's record. Botha had lost 4 in a row coming in...
Yours is simply an opinion - you mentioned Areola and I answered with the facts. Now your giving me your reasoning as to why he wouldnt take it? why post that he should be facing him if you know why he isnt? i have already answered why we wouldnt challenge and travel to their backyard so im not going to waste my time repeating myself. I explained in detail why not, yet you come out with a lame response like not bursting the money making bubble? You have an answer for everything and dont take responses into consideration .. 'yes mate i hadnt thought of it from that perspective' - not you - you just continue to blow bubbles. You appear to know everything - me Im just trying to contribute and give my opinion .. I will leave it upto you to answe the questions from here on in ...
Thanks, Stu.
We actually do appreciate having Joe's Matchmaker come on here. It is tremendous for us fans. So thankyou again.
Regarding the posters here who are whining about Joe's record... Fight afficionados from around the world have taken a good look and consistently ranked Joe as one of the 2 or 3 best prospects. Why don't we just let 2016 play out before whining some more? They say he will step up this year. I believe it.
Why not let Parker prove himself this year and wait to comment then?
-Kiwi